Abortion

We have a pretty split crowd of liberals and conservatives....And most debates are about things that don't have absolute answers and are often ambiguous. Sooo - Abortion, are you for it or against it?

Also - it's a very touchy subject, so I hope we can keep this clean and not let this get out of hand.

I don't see any reason to be against it.

This is where a "debate" starts instead of both sides just stating an opinion . You know since the first 2 posters happen to disagree .

There are two debates in abortion.

#1 At what point does the unborn child start being considered a human being. People who are anti-abortion say at conception, people who are pro-abortion often say at birth. (Or sometimes late in the pregnancy depending.)

#2 The second debate is about the rights of the pregnant woman. Having children is still dangerous even in our day and age some women die. In addition to that, it's an extreme inconvenience for 9 months and can often age a woman. Does the pregnant woman have the right to say that she doesn't want to waste 9 months of her life, put alot of stress on her body, and risk her life for an unborn child? Anti-abortion says that she made her decision when she got pregnant and now she deserves to suffer all of these things. Pro-abortion says that her life is her own and she has a right to live it how she chooses and not endanger it if she doesn't want to.

I am not against it, but I don't think that it should happen.

I believe that life starts at conception, but I do not believe that the newly formed life counts as fully human yet. It does not meet the criteria that is traditionally assigned in order to be considered a full human. I.e. it can't think, and (for certain schools) it can't take care of itself. Yes, I do realize there are several issues to be brought against the second claim, but that's your guys' job, not mine.

Essentially, I think that everyone understands the power of abortion. Everyone gets that they are destroying a life and that the girl has a long list of "should haves." However, at that point it becomes very easy for someone to say "abortion is wrong, always. No exceptions, ever."

The answer is not that simple.

I'll repost on this later most surely - need essay to be done right now though.

I'm completely and utterly against it.

Because you're an irresponsible piece of crap doesn't mean you should trash a human life.

I voted for it. I don't see a big deal honestly, first of all, the child wont know a thing going on. Secondly human population is rampant anyways, one life doesn't matter too much, especially when the parents don't want it. People need to die, I wish modern medicine wasn't invented.

Would you want to be an unwanted child? I think not. Oh, but I think it'd be great if the child wasn't close to being born, then it shouldn't happen. Or if the parent is under 20, they should have no choice. They need to be taught a lesson, Lol.

ÐeathByCyanide wrote:

I voted for it. I don't see a big deal honestly, first of all, the child wont know a thing going on. Secondly human population is rampant anyways, one life doesn't matter too much, especially when the parents don't want it. People need to die, I wish modern medicine wasn't invented.

Would you want to be an unwanted child? I think not. Oh, but I think it'd be great if the child wasn't close to being born, then it shouldn't happen. Or if the parent is under 20, they should have no choice. They need to be taught a lesson, Lol.

Because I stabbed you in the heart in the dark, you wouldn't know that anything would be going on either, because you'd be dead,

Jay.J wrote:

This is where a "debate" starts instead of both sides just stating an opinion . You know since the first 2 posters happen to disagree .

I guess i have nothing against it because i don't really care too much about the value of human life well not more then i care about the life of some random cow or a fly.

Bartimaeus wrote:

ÐeathByCyanide wrote:

I voted for it. I don't see a big deal honestly, first of all, the child wont know a thing going on. Secondly human population is rampant anyways, one life doesn't matter too much, especially when the parents don't want it. People need to die, I wish modern medicine wasn't invented.

Would you want to be an unwanted child? I think not. Oh, but I think it'd be great if the child wasn't close to being born, then it shouldn't happen. Or if the parent is under 20, they should have no choice. They need to be taught a lesson, Lol.

Because I stabbed you in the heart in the dark, you wouldn't know that anything would be going on either, because you'd be dead,

Because I'm a full functional, productive individual, who is wanted, and is known by dozens, and dozens of other individuals. I might need to rephrase mine, I believe it should be legal up to the point where the baby develops a personality, a nervous center, and etc. I don't believe it to be murder either, you could consider to not fertilize and egg that would die without sperm as murder, since you had to power to keep that egg alive, in some peoples terms. Then again, we kill off other mammals like they're nothing, I thought humans were humane then that? If abortion is illegal, so should be killing a common house bug, or even eating meat. If abortion is illegal, then we should also give every other living thing an equal chance to live. I agree with Belial, sadly, (I wont go out and kill someone though, I'm not a psychopath) but people do in fact NEED to die, I care about the planet more then people, which is being royally fucked over.

Psychopath is such a harsh word, i prefer anti-social or not a people person. And i don't really kill people, i send them to a better place.

Just kidding.
I'm not really a psychopath. Seriously i'm not. Please believe me.

ÐeathByCyanide wrote:

Because I'm a full functional, productive individual, who is wanted, and is known by dozens, and dozens of other individuals. I might need to rephrase mine, I believe it should be legal up to the point where the baby develops a personality, a nervous center, and etc. I don't believe it to be murder either, you could consider to not fertilize and egg that would die without sperm as murder, since you had to power to keep that egg alive, in some peoples terms. Then again, we kill off other mammals like they're nothing, I thought humans were humane then that? If abortion is illegal, so should be killing a common house bug, or even eating meat. If abortion is illegal, then we should also give every other living thing an equal chance to live. I agree with Belial, sadly, (I wont go out and kill someone though, I'm not a psychopath) but people do in fact NEED to die, I care about the planet more then people, which is being royally fucked over.

Animals were created for food. Yes, the world is screwed, but you're screwing it over more by aborting "children" because of your irresponsibility. If humans are really that stupid, then they deserve the punishment.

Quote :

Animals were created for food. Yes, the world is screwed, but you're screwing it over more by aborting "children" because of your irresponsibility. If humans are really that stupid, then they deserve the punishment.

Ummm... Animals were created for food?

If someone get's pregnant by accident how are they irresponsible? Well about 75% of the world's population are idiots but we don't punish the stabbing victims for running into knives.

Belial wrote:

Quote :

Animals were created for food. Yes, the world is screwed, but you're screwing it over more by aborting "children" because of your irresponsibility. If humans are really that stupid, then they deserve the punishment.

Ummm... Animals were created for food?

If someone get's pregnant by accident how are they irresponsible? Well about 75% of the world's population are idiots but we don't punish the stabbing victims for running into knives.

Leave them up for adoption? I think that's better than abortion.

Yes.

Adoption isn't really a better alternative, that usually just screwes the kid up some way. Also the mother will still have to suffer for something that might not have been her fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93cFOjDG-Ks

^^ Some black guy giving a conservative point of view, and he does it pretty well I think. I merely put up the conservative view since most people seem to be "for it" based on the polls and the posts made.

Belial wrote:

Adoption isn't really a better alternative, that usually just screwes the kid up some way. Also the mother will still have to suffer for something that might not have been her fault.

So, you'd rather not existed at all than having a bad life?

(edit) Brilliant video posted, Jay.J, thanks.

(edit again) lol "Retarded people smile a lot more than we do! (grins)" lol

Quote :

So, you'd rather not existed at all than having a bad life? clown

Yes. Not really any point in living unless you enjoy it. If you have a crappy life that just leads to suicides.

Belial wrote:

Quote :

So, you'd rather not existed at all than having a bad life? clown

Yes. Not really any point in living unless you enjoy it. If you have a crappy life that just leads to suicides.

So, you think you'd NEVER EVER have any enjoyment in life at all? I guess it would be depressing to be you, because the second you aren't being enjoyed, you're going to be thinking about suiciding,

Im pro choice personally.


Look around you. Seriously. Some people simply have shitty lives and some people shouldn't bring new lives into this world as it will just be worse for them and the baby. You can argue that it is murder but until the fetus is born and aged slightly like a fine wine it is not sentient (IMO). I understand there should be limits to how far in they should be allowed to do abortions, I have no quarrels with that, however up to a specific point be it a month or three the mother should have complete rights of choice in the matter unless she is not of coherent mind then it should be up to the father, if they are both not coherent enough to actually make a decision then obviously the baby shouldn't be born and theirs your answer.

Also I find that 99% of people who are not for abortion believe in god. There is a direct correlation of holding life at a higher value then it actually is, which is something that religion and the idea of god do to people. I'm just being honest I know this will piss some people off but its the truth as I see it anyways.

Well i do get bored easily but suicidal thoughts come after 2 hours of boredom.

But seriously you don't need to be unhappy all the time just enough. Something i found googling.

I'm not adopted and i "dislike" religion or religious people and i don't think human life has much value.

Rhys wrote:

Im pro choice personally.


Look around you. Seriously. Some people simply have shitty lives and some people shouldn't bring new lives into this world as it will just be worse for them and the baby. You can argue that it is murder but until the fetus is born and aged slightly like a fine wine it is not sentient (IMO). I understand there should be limits to how far in they should be allowed to do abortions, I have no quarrels with that, however up to a specific point be it a month or three the mother should have complete rights of choice in the matter unless she is not of coherent mind then it should be up to the father, if they are both not coherent enough to actually make a decision then obviously the baby shouldn't be born and theirs your answer.

Also I find that 99% of people who are not for abortion believe in god. There is a direct correlation of holding life at a higher value then it actually is, which is something that religion and the idea of god do to people. I'm just being honest I know this will piss some people off but its the truth as I see it anyways.

I hold your life not worth actually what I thought it was worth before. I think you should die.

Like I said before, would you rather not have existed at all, or have a mostly-bad life? I don't know about you, but I'd have a bad life.

A baby is not part of you. You do not own it. You do not have the right to destroy it, because it is not your life. It is their's, regardless of their ability to express it.

Also, the fine wine - baby analogy was really dumb. When a wine is aged, it still isn't sentient. Not only that, but you don't kill new wine, you wait for it to age.

(edit) If you don't believe in any religion, why are you named after a fallen angel, and having a quote about him/her in your signature? Kind of hypocritical, if you ask me.

FYI: I will fight you all to the end about this,

Quote :

A baby is not part of you. You do not own it. You do not have the right to destroy it, because it is not your life. It is their's, regardless of their ability to express it.

Are you vegan or do you eat meat? Even if you are vegan you don't own plants and yet you destroy them to eat.

You don't own the air around you and yet you pollute it every day with cars.

And don't give me that nonsense about god created it for you to eat, if you give me that then i fully expect a logical reason why I should believe god exists.

Rhys wrote:

Quote :

A baby is not part of you. You do not own it. You do not have the right to destroy it, because it is not your life. It is their's, regardless of their ability to express it.

Are you vegan or do you eat meat? Even if you are vegan you don't own plants and yet you destroy them to eat.

You don't own the air around you and yet you pollute it every day with cars.

And don't give me that nonsense about god created it for you to eat, if you give me that then i fully expect a logical reason why I should believe god exists.

You do realize that believing God is based on faith, correct?

Here, let me google that for you.

(edit) Here, let me explain it to those really simple-minded:

Believing God is based on FAITH. Not facts. There isn't ANY logical solution to it in the slightest. I admit it freely. Yet I still believe it beyond logical thinking..?

Yeah, that's called faith, like I said before. There isn't any logical explanation to it, because it doesn't make sense. How would God create the world out of nothing?

You are enlightened.