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 Remaking skills

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Lagger09
RapidFireOmega
ÐeathByCyanide
TanK_OwneR
BashAndSmash
Dragonheart91
Jay.J
SinisteRing
12 posters
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Which spell should be remade first?
Raise Dead
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 21% [ 17 ]
Interrupt
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 11% [ 9 ]
Burn
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 11% [ 9 ]
Pacifism
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 10% [ 8 ]
Thunderbolt
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 17% [ 14 ]
Purge
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 4% [ 3 ]
Silence
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 4% [ 3 ]
Way of the wind
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 9% [ 7 ]
Truesight
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 6% [ 5 ]
Flame Strike
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 7% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 81
 

AuthorMessage
BashAndSmash
Moderator
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BashAndSmash


Number of posts : 399
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
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Primary Move: I Zap You

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySat May 31, 2008 9:39 pm

There's a giant thunderbolt thread you just gotta look for it.
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kuro
Clan Chieftan
kuro


Number of posts : 1331
Registration date : 2008-05-31
Age : 114
Location : in the middle of nowHere.

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Level: 2
Primary Move: invoke

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jun 05, 2008 5:22 pm

some suggestions, replace flaming essence and precision strike with 'scorching flame', and 'positive charge.' 16,32,48

scorching flame: the mage's flame burns so hot that it scorches everything that it touches. adds 4dps/4seconds, 8dps/4seconds, 12dps/4seconds. scorching flame has a (1/level)% chance of activating. (level 3 has a 33% chance, 2 has a 50% chance, and lvl 1 has a 100% chance. if level 3 doesnt work, level 2 will proc (diceroll) and if anything, level one will work. passively adds half dps to the mage's attacks (2/4, 4/4, 6/4, or 8/16/24dmg).

positive charge: the mage's attacks are infused with electricity, adding a positive electrical charge to all matter hit. when a unit is attacked (and damaged) by the mage, the negabuff 'positive charge' is added to that unit. if an enemy unit within range of a unit with thunderstorm has 'positive charge', thunderstorm will auto-target that unit. any unit with positive charge that is hit with a lightning spell will take x/y/z% more damage, but then lose the buff. when attacking a unit with the positive charge buff, the mage's attacks have a 20/30/40% chance of casting an instant lightning attack dealing x1.4,x1.8,x2.2 normal damage. unit also loses 'positive charge' when this activates.

--notes, scorching flame: may be buffed. +48 dmg is a lot, unless its changed around a bit, the proc chance should stay. either make it cheaper sp WITH proc, or more but without proc. i'd think that fire should burn people.
--notes, positive charge: lasts 3.5,4.0,4.5 seconds. % more dmg by lightning spells is TBD. and its true that the negative source flows to the positive one,

--notes on both: these were created as a sort of attack/damage buff, as they originally were as flaming ess and pre. strike. theyre just ideas Razz and i liek coming up with them.
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jun 05, 2008 8:16 pm

Kuro, the point of remaking them is to make them NOT luck based. Your suggestions actually make them feel MORE luck based. Seriously, please read the other stuff and post accordingly.
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kuro
Clan Chieftan
kuro


Number of posts : 1331
Registration date : 2008-05-31
Age : 114
Location : in the middle of nowHere.

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Level: 2
Primary Move: invoke

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySat Jun 07, 2008 11:21 pm

okay, then eliminate the proc chance. i do not wish my idea to be shot down because it was initially luck-based.

i believe these are good ideas Sad
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySun Jun 08, 2008 9:28 pm

Sure, just edit your original post, or make a new thread. Either way, remake the ability so it isn't luck based.
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kuro
Clan Chieftan
kuro


Number of posts : 1331
Registration date : 2008-05-31
Age : 114
Location : in the middle of nowHere.

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Level: 2
Primary Move: invoke

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2008 11:10 pm

*scorching flame:
~~~desciption: the mage's flames are so hot that they are capable of causing severe burns.
-----effect: causes those hit by the spells to firebolt, fireball, and fiery orb to take 16/32/48 dmg over 4 seconds.
-----other: regular attacks burn enemies for half of the regular spell bonus dmg.
reason for idea: fire is hot, it should burn stuff.

*static charge:
~~~desciption: the mage infuses his attacks with an electrical impulse, which positively charges other molecules.
-----effect: adds a negabbuff 'positive charge' to units attacked, which lasts for 3/3.6/4.2 seconds.
-----other: thunderstorm will target units with 'positive charge' over units without it. positive charge amplifies income damage slightly. (TBD%) units hit by a lightning spell will lose 'positive charge.'
-----other2: when attacking a unit with static charge, the mage will cast a 1target lightning bolt (chain lightning animation) dealing 1*power. buff is lost when this occurrs.
reasoning for this idea: lightning is created when negative ions and positive neutrons flow in eachothers directions. a high concentration of positive neutrons would make lightning have a higher tendency to strike at that point.

****otherother notes: mana cost may be added to either spells.
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SinisteRing
Webmaster
Webmaster
SinisteRing


Number of posts : 2032
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 31
Location : New Hampshire

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Primary Move: Telekinetic Choke

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2008 11:36 pm

Will you please put these in the Spell Suggestion forum where they belong? I don't feel like reading them here all jumbled up.
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kuro
Clan Chieftan
kuro


Number of posts : 1331
Registration date : 2008-05-31
Age : 114
Location : in the middle of nowHere.

Your Character
Level: 2
Primary Move: invoke

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySat Jun 14, 2008 5:28 pm

oh, sorry, will do.

*ps im not that good at organization lol*
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 3:52 pm

I was just thinking it's time to revive this thread. Remaking these skills is fairly high on my priority list, maybe even higher than putting in new items.

Raise Dead could probably be made better by having it target the corpse, and doing a 1.5*power explosion in 200-300 aoe where the skeleton is revived.
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SinisteRing
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Webmaster
SinisteRing


Number of posts : 2032
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 31
Location : New Hampshire

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Telekinetic Choke

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 5:06 pm

Eh, as far as I recall, Rhys said he would only be doing the output of one new version, not continuing the map again.

It's just as far as I know, if he is continuing, then whatever... so be it.
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 5:16 pm

Maybe, we will have to see.
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys


Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 41
Location : Massachusetts

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 7:08 pm

like the raise dead idea, interesting concept
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Dragonheart91
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Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 7:46 pm

People have already suggested Corpse Explosion, I just basically combined Raise Skeleton with Corpse Explosion into one spell.
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys


Number of posts : 719
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Location : Massachusetts

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 7:48 pm

yes but the combination is great
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 08, 2009 7:57 pm

Hopefully.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 4:46 pm

I would like to add Water Spike (the Water [R] spell), the Earth equivalent (the Earth [R] spell), and the Fire mana regeneration aura. (The Fire [D] spell.)


I think that Mana Shield should be returned to [R] and a different [C] spell should be added. (Not necessarily the one I suggested, but preferably something more Ultimate than a basic Mana Shield.) If Rhys has a good argument against this, I'm sure he will present it here.

The new spell on Earth doesn't really do anything unique. Granite Grenade is good for ranged aoe damage (sniping) and Earthquake is good for ranged aoe damage over time. (Disabling) So, the new spell falls somewhere inbetween doing neither thing as well.

The regeneration aura on Fire is like an inferior version of the one on Water. Seems kinda pointless. I suggest limiting the regeneration to self only, and then giving it another secondary effect. (Like giving all of your spells a minor non-channeled version of Burn on anything they hit. Or, increasing the aoe of all your spells. Something like that.)
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys


Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 41
Location : Massachusetts

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Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 6:26 pm

Side note before i respond : Ive noticed over the past day or so that your posts have become much more suggestive and much less demanding. Kudos for your efforts so far, they do not go unnoticed=)

Quote :
I think that Mana Shield should be returned to [R] and a different [C] spell should be added. (Not necessarily the one I suggested, but preferably something more Ultimate than a basic Mana Shield.) If Rhys has a good argument against this, I'm sure he will present it here.



It took a very long time to come to this decision, in fact i actually lost sleep over it. When Sea elemental was doomed to be taken out I needed to make a decision on what to put in. A Ultimate Spell is generally considerably harder to think up then a regular spell because you want to dazzle and shock everyone with something never before seen while keeping it lag-less, leak-less and written in jass to ensure both of those qualities. I tried for a few days but I could not come up with a good Mspell that would be balanced and functional in the new environment. After looking over the overall strategies for the game I noticed something very specific about Manashield, which is that it is the most commonly used spell in any strategy that has to do with water and its a key spell to almost every single strategy that involves water. More important then any other spell.... Stronger then any other spell.... Well that sounds like the ultimate to me.

When I made the decision to do this the first thing I did was ATTEMPT to convince Pythagoras that it was a good idea, but after I said the second sentence of my large wall of text that i was about to spout out Pyth agreed that it was the most logical choice and would eventually make the game more balanced in the end because of the change. Thus that's how Manashield became an Ultimate. Much like invisible there are things that no one has control over in mm&m but me, and my priority is balance. Mana shield simply put belongs in the ultimate position and it was being abused before while it wasn't in that position causing the game to be unbalanced and creating strategies within the game that depend on that abuse. Many arguments will be made about this for a little while I'm sure, but in the end I'm right and I know this to be true so I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

Dust Devil is Made to fill a specific Issue for Earth, which is Melee range. The Earth Mage needs to be up close and in the thick of things in order to fulfill your best advantages in the game. Dust Devil effectively takes out all units in the game for 8 seconds in a 400 AOE allowing you to stay in the heat of battle for just a little longer. Ive personally used Earth in tests many times to see how this spell works and what strategies are good for it, and trust me when I say that Dust Devil is an incredibly versatile Spell that will be bitched about in a few months time.

I'm open to new Passive Spell Suggestions for Fire Element if you would like to give it a try.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 7:43 pm

I would much rather nerf Mana Shield however you deem necessary and keep it on the [R] slot. If that means losing 2 points of mana for each point of damage or something, then so be it. It enables so many builds that are impossible otherwise. I hate to see at least 6-10 possible mage builds be totally ruined by this. (I really did want to hear your argument and be convinced though.) Maybe I can learn to live with it, but at least 3 of my favorite strategies no longer work very well. They didn't rely on Mana Shield, but it sure helped alot when things got tight.

If it's going to be an ultimate, then I would rather see it buffed or changed in some way to make it ultimate like. For instance, having Aqua Sphere and letting it target yourself would be a way to have Mana Shield while still having other interesting things in the ultimate.

There are a couple of good suggestions for the ultimate, although none incredibly polished. In my opinion, it either needed to be a powerful support skill like Aqua Sphere or Mana Flare, or it needed to be a powerful aoe spell like Torrent or Drown. (Btw, right there are at least 4 decent suggestions for the ultimate. So, please don't tell me there are no suggestions.)


I guess I don't understand how Dust Devil works. It was my understanding that it was exactly the same as Water Spike except that it made units miss 75% of attacks instead of slowing them. I don't see how that helps you get into melee range as an Earth mage. If it's not that, then please enlighten me.

And yes, I agree that Earth could use another good spell to help them get into range. Maybe a tunneling type move that gives them some form of movement. Time for an example.

Tunnel (for lack of a better name off the top of my head)

Effect: Similar to Ice Slide, but your invisible and it's somewhat slower. There is a movement along the ground to show where your traveling though, and any damage you take during this will interrupt it. It lasts a few seconds, and if you hit anything during it it will end and the unit you hit will be stunned for a few moments.

Just an example, but maybe a positioning skill such as that would benefit Earth. It could also be made to target something and be essentially uncontrollable, or a variety of other things. This isn't a good or polished idea, just a possible one.


I'll brainstorm on the Fire passive a bit. Maybe someone else will come up with a good suggestion also.


I also want to mention that I have indeed thought alot about the way that Water works before. I used a pure Water mage for a VERY long time. If it had just one more support skill, it could be a serious support element. If it had one more self-buff or mana regen skill, it could majorly tank/summon, and if it had one more aoe damage skill, it could actually semi-carry. The other buffs that we suggested would have actually given it all 3. The buffs to the mana regeneration would have let it tank, the buffs to Geyser would have let it carry, and the ultimate would have kinda been the decider on whether it leaned more towards carry like Wind or more towards support like Holy. (Hence why we argued so much about it and never chose an actual ultimate.)

I would like to see it have the buffs to Geyser and a new support skill, even if that means that the tankyness of Mana Shield is severely nerfed. Being able to support or carry and having the option to use SOME defense when necessary gives it ALOT more builds than just "Let's give it another aoe skill so it can semi-carry." That tends to make it a support/carry very similar to Wind, but focusing on regenerating allies instead of silencing enemies. (And without the assassination part.)

So again, put Mana Shield back and nerf it. Then buff Geyser appropriately or replace it with Water Spike. Then either give it an aoe ultimate, or a support ultimate, and leave silence alone or replace it with Water Spike depending on what it needs at that point.


P.S. Sorry about the essay. I know you'll make the right decision in the end and that I'll learn to live with it. I also do see your logic. But, if you choose to leave Mana Shield on the ultimate (although I'll be slightly sad) I will get over it eventually. However, I think it needs some buffs if it is to be the ultimate. Either some alternate functionality like Aqua Sphere, or some straight-up buffing like when Jay wanted it to regenerate your mana while active. (Which would single-handedly make a Water tanking build viable but make it work only on pure Water and not any Water/Element combinations.)
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Rhys
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Rhys


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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 7:52 pm

giving it a mana regen is a bit over the top. Combined with the new replenish it should have a significant increase in play use.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 8:28 pm

Everyone but you was considering the mana regen when it was just an [R] skill in addition to buffs to Replenish AND Bubble Aura. I don't think it's too over the top. In any case, that was just an example. It could be buffed differently if desired. There are many ways.


P.S. If you actually read that, then your way more impressive than I thought. It was like a flippen essay. When I finished and saw how big it was, I just expected a line of tl;dr below my post.
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys


Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
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Location : Massachusetts

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Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 8:34 pm

Have you seen the size of some of my posts? Seriously I like reread those three times before I post them, reading is not something I dislike doing at all!
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DarkDjinni
God of Ice
God of Ice
DarkDjinni


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Primary Move: Change This To Your Own Special Move In Your Profile

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySat Jan 31, 2009 12:35 am

I read everyone's posts and then if I post about it I will re-read certain sections again.

I need a name for Fire Spell, something like Combustion.

Each Fire Spell cast on enemy increases Fire Damage taken by 3% for 5 seconds, stacks 7 times. (Still weaker then the current passive BUT it is 100%)

Burn ticks would activate this. (Maybe making Burn more used)

Maybe 7 stacks is a little overpowered, maybe 5 or even 3 would be better, but I'll leave this up to you all to argue about.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySat Jan 31, 2009 1:33 am

Seems quite a bit weak. If you combo like 5 spells then you'll end up doing 10% extra damage give or take? Maybe if it lasted alot longer than 5 seconds or something.


I do still think it should give some mana regeneration to Fire. What if it was something like this: You regenerate mana equal to 1.5/3/4.5% of the damage you deal to enemy mages. So, at maximum level, you could regenerate as much as 30 mana for each time you hit an enemy. Fire Orb could almost pay for itself if there were alot of people being hit. (I've seen it do upwards of 4000 total spread between all the mages. That converts to something like ~180 mana regenerated with this skill.)

Also, Combustion would be a good name for the passive I just described.
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DarkDjinni
God of Ice
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DarkDjinni


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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptySat Jan 31, 2009 2:25 am

Each time you add on a stack it resets time.

So you could potentially have the max increased % up till they die.
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Coverzin
Intermediate Mage
Intermediate Mage



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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Remaking skills - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 09, 2009 6:25 am

Should this really still be stickied?

Edit: Totally missed that there was more than the first page, lmfao. So it has more merit than I thought.


Last edited by Coverzin on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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