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 The Weakest Element

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What Is The Weakest Element?
Dark
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap0%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Earth
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap5%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 5% [ 1 ]
Fire
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap5%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 5% [ 1 ]
Holy
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap14%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 14% [ 3 ]
Ice
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap0%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Lightning
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap52%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 52% [ 11 ]
Water
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap10%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 10% [ 2 ]
Wind
The Weakest Element I_vote_lcap14%The Weakest Element I_vote_rcap
 14% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 21
 

AuthorMessage
Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys

Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 37
Location : Massachusetts

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Level: 1
Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 7:33 pm

- Vote Canceling Enabled

-This poll will be to determine the weakest element. This is for the new environment only, if you have not played through the newest version at least once then please do not vote.

-When You do vote please post with the element you voted for and a short or long description of why.

_________________
The Weakest Element Rhysmd1

"Am I the narrow-minded one...or you? I believe in things that have no logical explanation." - Bart, My New Favorite Quoter
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys

Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 37
Location : Massachusetts

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Holy


I pick holy because its purely support. While its res ability is arguably the best ability in the game I feel that besides this one ability a Holy Mage has no reason to exist. I would like to eventually see the ability to heal towers removed which would further nerf the Holy Element. So In my opinion I feel Holy Sucks the Most now and will most certainly suck even more in the coming versions.

_________________
The Weakest Element Rhysmd1

"Am I the narrow-minded one...or you? I believe in things that have no logical explanation." - Bart, My New Favorite Quoter
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91

Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 7:59 pm

Wow, that's tough.

Water still seems to not offer enough variety to me.

Holy has received alot of nerfs and using lately has seemed a bit underwhelming.

Earth still has a huge problem with mana regeneration and positioning. I haven't seen it much in the new version yet though.

Wind still needs at least 1-2 skills remade due to the fact that they are nearly useless. That brings it down a few notches, especially combined with the absolute lack of mana regeneration.

Lightning still isn't quite filling it's niche to me, and has one of the most useless skills in the game. I would like to see range bonuses to quite a few of it's moves and Thunderbolt buffed.

Fire has terrible ultimates other than Fire Orb. If you miss your stunlock, then your worthless.

Dark seems well balanced except that Raise Dead needs to be changed.

Ice seems well balanced at the moment. Ice Slide and Frostbite need remakes.
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SinisteRing
Webmaster
Webmaster
SinisteRing

Number of posts : 2032
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 27
Location : New Hampshire

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Telekinetic Choke

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 8:16 pm

Clearly not Holy. A holy mage basically wins the game for a team. I know I don't play much, but that much I know as general knowledge.

I voted Water due to the fact is all it does is give allies and yourself mana... and possibly tank... but Earth can do that just as well. YAY!...?

Water gives mana.
Holy gives health.

Health > Mana.
Holy > Water
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91

Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 8:38 pm

He said pretty clearly that you had to play the new version before voting. Water is buffed and Holy is nerfed. Try a -anns game with balanced teams and see what you find.
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jeffthepony
Apprentice Mage
Apprentice Mage
jeffthepony

Number of posts : 1
Registration date : 2009-01-18

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Holy Pony Wrath

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyThu Feb 05, 2009 11:02 pm

I think either lightning or water is the weakest. lightning was a bit too easy because you could just point and click with lightning strike, but its nerf was a bit too harsh. i havent actually played a water before but ive heard people say it needs a buff so i guess that may be true. i voted lightning anyway.
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nosobi
Apprentice Mage
Apprentice Mage


Number of posts : 3
Registration date : 2009-02-03

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 11:35 am

lightning only has 3 active dmge spells which cant kill anyone who has more than 1500hp unless they kill you and it bolts them
and water... i think it wasnt meant for killing just like holy but still... revive is uber if a team has 2 holys with revive its an auto win
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91

Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 11:57 am

Wow, alot of people think Lightning is weak. Surprising.

Personally, I'm for Earth or Wind as the weakest. Things without any mana regeneration have trouble.
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Jay.J
Head Admin
Head Admin
Jay.J

Number of posts : 3470
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 28
Location : Toronto

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Level: ∞
Primary Move: Moderate

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 12:05 pm

Told you all lightning didn't need the change to Lightning Strike...That's what did it. Also...lightning doesn't have regen either soo what are you talking about...?

_________________
The Weakest Element Jaycopyxx0
The Weakest Element Some
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diaster
Ultimate Sage
Ultimate Sage
diaster

Number of posts : 1378
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 30
Location : behind you

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Wind Control

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 2:45 pm

Jay.J wrote:
Told you all lightning didn't need the change to Lightning Strike...That's what did it. Also...lightning doesn't have regen either soo what are you talking about...?
hey I agreed with you, btw did it end up getting some perk for it having to be aimed? And yes res is still rigged as fuck but no one listens here about that. I mean all that needs to be done to make it fair is kill the range on it, so people actually have a chance to stop it. I mean it has like the longest range of most spells in the game.
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Balnazzar
Elite Mage
Elite Mage
Balnazzar

Number of posts : 371
Registration date : 2008-10-29
Age : 109

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Communist Propaganda

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 5:46 pm

The Almighty says:

Lightning and Wind are the weakest IMNSHO.

P.S.: I only posted to say that Jeff's icon and signature are funny as hell. lol!
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys

Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 37
Location : Massachusetts

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 7:06 pm

good point diaster on res.

I believe the trade off for lightning strike changing was a farther effective range of the spell combined with a needed nerf because it was to over powered before. Personally I hated the spell at first but i have grown to enjoy its necessary skill factor in using it.

_________________
The Weakest Element Rhysmd1

"Am I the narrow-minded one...or you? I believe in things that have no logical explanation." - Bart, My New Favorite Quoter
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91

Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 7:32 pm

Well, it wasn't the spell itself that was overpowered so much as the combination with the rest of the element that led to doing an instantaneous 1500-1800 damage. (E.G. Enough to kill a mage before they have a chance to fight back.) And that it couldn't be dodged or evaded like similar combos from other elements.

I will agree that Lightning is a bit weak now. Thunderbolt is the spell that needs changing though in my opinion. (Maybe give it some ability to regenerate mana. For instance, it could have a mana stealing factor. 10% of the damage it deals could regenerate your mana for equal amount. Now I'm probably talking about a whole new spell though. Thundercloud maybe. Charges up and absorbs mana when mages near it cast spells and then gives that mana to the lightning mage and/or unleashes it in an aoe blast.)
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys

Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 37
Location : Massachusetts

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 7:38 pm

clearly lightning has been decided this round. I will be applying various buffs to the new gear that was installed a few versions back for the lightning element. After that version has been released this thread will be moved to the archives and a new one will start.

_________________
The Weakest Element Rhysmd1

"Am I the narrow-minded one...or you? I believe in things that have no logical explanation." - Bart, My New Favorite Quoter
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91

Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 8:13 pm

I still say fix Thunderbolt and Lightning isn't too weak anymore.
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Jay.J
Head Admin
Head Admin
Jay.J

Number of posts : 3470
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 28
Location : Toronto

Your Character
Level: ∞
Primary Move: Moderate

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 8:27 pm

I don't think it's the spells themselves, but what the element as a whole provides. Like I've said before it's the element overall and it's role as a mage.

It's meant to fill the role of a carry mage (At least most people would agree). However just the make up of skills leaves it lacking as a killer. Lightning is supposed to be the element with the most power and the most reliance and effect from it, however that's not exactly true at least not anymore IMO.

Skill breakdown:

Non-Power needed spells - Purge, Crack, Taser, Elementals
Passives: Precision Strike, Static Charge, Force of Lightning
Nukes: Thunder Clap, Lightning Strike, Thunderbolt
Buffs: Thunder Storm

Just looking at the spells, for an element that's supposed to be a heavy nuker with power being it's focus - it's really only got 3 nukes, one of which is subpar. Granted both Static & Thunderstorm can act as nukes - they aren't direct nukes and work just as effectively on a support, if not better. Basically Lightning isn't sure what it wants to be, whether it wants to be a support hero or a carry hero, and either position it doesn't even rely on power as much as it should.

Cracks range can be modified with Power IMO. Slow Factor can be modified with power IMO. Taser damage can be modified with power IMO, as well as letting each tick of damage possible to trigger Precision Strike. Also - why is Force of Lightning 10 power, while every other stat modifier is +15? Either you're admitting that power is the best stat, or you're just not being fair to lightning.

O, and I don't think Lightning needs ALL of that, I just think that it needs to have a more defined role, and with that revolve around something. Unlike other elements like Dark, you can't go polar strength or something....Yet going polar power only helps so many spells.

Edit: That and it has the most mana for a [Q] spell, and doesn't have an effect added. If range = Slow/Stun, fine - but why would the mana cost be almost 30-40 higher?

_________________
The Weakest Element Jaycopyxx0
The Weakest Element Some
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diaster
Ultimate Sage
Ultimate Sage
diaster

Number of posts : 1378
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 30
Location : behind you

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Wind Control

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 9:26 pm

I'd actually like it if we changed lightning back to its old sniper class, but that's a more personal want. As for damage maybe give them chain lightning instead of the elemental or thunder bolt? and maybe give them the naga lightning skill. Simple skills, but they work so well.
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Lagger09
Legendary
Legendary
Lagger09

Number of posts : 535
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 27
Location : SoCal

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Level: 1
Primary Move: I am the Destroyer of Time... guess...

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 10:08 pm

both chain lightning and forked lightning are quite random, and i thought we were trying to avoid randomness. we could do a chain that selects the nearest unit.
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Belial
Master Mage
Master Mage
Belial

Number of posts : 266
Registration date : 2008-07-23
Age : 28
Location : No ty, i don't want people to try to rape me in my own house.

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Posession

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 10:53 pm

Thunderbolt can't really be considered a nuke. More like a firecracker.
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Jay.J
Head Admin
Head Admin
Jay.J

Number of posts : 3470
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 28
Location : Toronto

Your Character
Level: ∞
Primary Move: Moderate

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyFri Feb 20, 2009 11:54 pm

My point remains. I don't know if any spell (Besides maybe thunderbolt) needs a remake, just the spells should be changed (And buffed possibly in that way) so they incorporate power. For example, Crack could do 12/15/18 units moved per power (Max range). Overall, a high power mage would crack further than it is now but a normal mage would be cracking at what it is now (Overall buff). Same thing goes with Taser, like 0.75x power at max level damage, so it can be considered a semi-nuke. If it's supposed to be a power element...don't make it have skills that are COMPLETELY unreliant on power, at least not ones that aren't passives...

_________________
The Weakest Element Jaycopyxx0
The Weakest Element Some
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
Godlike Sage
Dragonheart91

Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 12:53 am

That sounds fine to me. Also, did anyone remember my suggestion for a remake to Thunderbolt?

Chain Lightning: Deals 1/1.5/2*Power and bounces 3/4/5 times. Cannot bounce to the same unit twice. Each bounce increases the damage by 25%. Each hit can critical with Precision Strike. It always jumps to the closest unit.

That means that on the first target it's likely to do just under 200 targeted damage, but you can do anywhere from 300-600 damage on the later hits depending on how well you set it up. It should be fairly easy to code too, since it's based on a spell that is already in the game.
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kuro
Clan Chieftan
kuro

Number of posts : 1331
Registration date : 2008-05-31
Age : 110
Location : in the middle of nowHere.

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Level: 2
Primary Move: invoke

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 12:57 am

lightning isn't weakest...

its just the most in need of a re-do.


the instant 5*pwr, crack, purge, thunderclap, and a possible thunderstorm (and even static) were way too good together.

but now its just broken...


maybe it would be good if lightning-strike was a 100AoE spell that targeted the closest enemy (in that AoE)?
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Jay.J
Head Admin
Head Admin
Jay.J

Number of posts : 3470
Registration date : 2008-05-21
Age : 28
Location : Toronto

Your Character
Level: ∞
Primary Move: Moderate

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 am

The "Instant" is stupid. Make it slower and it doesn't matter. You can go melee range with crack anyway. Lightning doesn't play like a sniper class Neutral. It plays like a suicidal hero, or a support hero.

_________________
The Weakest Element Jaycopyxx0
The Weakest Element Some
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nosobi
Apprentice Mage
Apprentice Mage


Number of posts : 3
Registration date : 2009-02-03

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyMon Feb 23, 2009 11:12 pm

changing the elemental or tazer to some slow+dmge per sec based on power non channeling would be nice called shock or something

and with my lv 62 lightning thunderbolt hits for like 420 if somehow they all hit a target
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Rhys
Map Maker
Rhys

Number of posts : 719
Registration date : 2008-05-23
Age : 37
Location : Massachusetts

Your Character
Level: 1
Primary Move: Atomic Tea-Bag

The Weakest Element Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   The Weakest Element EmptyTue Feb 24, 2009 10:05 am

Ive been attempting to create a good replacement for the Lightning elemental, hasn't been going well because I suck at conceptualizing ideas for spells, they are so very generic. You guys can try to make one but you guys are way over the top when it comes to that, I have to find a middle ground somewhere.

_________________
The Weakest Element Rhysmd1

"Am I the narrow-minded one...or you? I believe in things that have no logical explanation." - Bart, My New Favorite Quoter
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