New Water Spell

LOVE the ripple idea.

Ripple: 175 mana, 21 second CD, Dmg, 1/1.5/2x power per ripple. 3/3/4 ripples. Each ripple damages mages in a 600 AoE around the mage. Silences for 0.5 seconds every ripple.

^^ Geyser OR Silence remake.



Edit: Ya, add on to it and change what you think needs changing - I haven't really added many of the suggested spells and what not.
Bubble (5 levels) [Q]

Effect: Launches bubble filled with water at target unit. When that unit is hit, it takes damage and is stunned for 0.5 seconds. If the target is invulnerable, it interrupts the target.

Mana Cost: 65/75/85/95/105
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: 750
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Damage: 1.00/1.75/2.50/3.25/4.00 * Power
Skill Point Cost: 3/3/3/3/3
Total Skill Point Cost: 15

Water Elemental (3 levels) [W]

Effect: Summons a Water Elemental which lasts for 120 seconds. Converts into a ¼, 1/3, ½ Crushing wave upon death going in the direction the unit was facing.

Mana Cost: 100/125/175
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: None
Cooldown: 18 seconds
Skill Point Cost: 6/5/4

Total Skill Point Cost: 15

Debuff (3 levels) [E]

Effect: Checks if the unit has a buff, if it doesn’t it slows the unit for 20%, if it does it removes all buffs but doesn’t slow.
Deals damage to summoned units.

Mana Cost: 90/95/100
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: 750
Cooldown: 21 seconds
Area of Effect: 100/150/200 Adds 10 AoE for every point in power
Damage to Summoned Units: 350/700/1050
Skill Point Cost: 4/4/4
Total Skill Point Cost: 12

Bubble Aura (4 levels) [D]

Effect: Gives an additional mana regeneration bonus to nearby friendly units.

Casting Type: Passive
Casting Range: 900 Aura
Mana Regeneration: 0.25%/0.5%/0.75%/1% Total mana per second. Also adds a static 1 mana per second at all levels.
Skill Point Cost: 4/4/4/4
Total Skill Point Cost: 16

Crushing Wave (3 levels) [A]

Effect: Launches a giant wave at target location, which hits enemy units as it travels in a line, dealing its damage to those units.

Mana Cost: 95/110/125
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: 850
Cooldown: 14 seconds
Damage: 1.25/2.5/3.75 * Power
Skill Point Cost: 6/6/6
Total Skill Point Cost: 18

Ripple (3 levels) [S]

Effect: The mage uses the water moisture in the air to send out ripples that damage and silence enemies per waves. 0.5second silence per wave. Each ripple comes out in one second intervals

Mana Cost: 135/190/245
Casting Type: AoE around mage
Casting Range: 600
Cooldown: 21 seconds
Damage: 1.0/1.5/2.0 * Power per wave
Skill Point Cost: 6/6/6
Total Skill Point Cost: 18

Mana Shield (4 levels) [R]

Effect: Activates a shield that absorbs 75% of damage received, using a mana points instead of health. Adds 1/9th, 1/8th,1/7th, 1/6th of overall mana when active to the total pool of the mage.

Mana Cost: 25/30/35/40
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: Personal
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Mana per Health: 0.75/1.00/1.25/1.50
Skill Point Cost: 5/5/5/5
Total Skill Point Cost: 20

Mana Flare (3 levels) [F]

Effect: Creates a ward that damages mages based on the amount of mana they expend.

Mana Cost: 75/100/125
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: 700
Cooldown: 19 seconds
Area of Effect: 500/600/700
Duration: 10/12/14 seconds
Skill Point Cost: 6/6/6
Ward does damage based on mana of the spell the enemy mage uses at 0.5/0.75/1.00 damage per point of mana.
Total Skill Point Cost: 18

??? [C]

Effect: ???

Mana Cost: ???
Casting Type: ???
Casting Range:???
Skill Point Cost: ???
Total Skill Point Cost: ???

Phase Shift (2 levels) [X]

Effect: Causes this unit to shift out of existence whenever it takes damage, temporarily avoiding any further damage for 1.5 seconds.

Mana Cost: 35/0
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: Personal
Cooldown: 6.5 seconds
Skill Point Cost: 5/6
Total Skill Point Cost:11

Replenish (3 levels) [Z]

Effect: Restores mana to all friendly units in a 525 AoE. Based on current mana.

Mana Cost: 5/10/15
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: 525 AoE
Cooldown: 23 seconds
Mana Restored: 35/70/105 + 5%/6%/7% of current mana
Skill Point Cost: 7/7/7
Total Skill Point Cost: 21

Force of the Ocean [C]

Effect: Crushing waves converge inward on a target point/Unit from all directions (Possible sinkhole type move to center effect).

Mana Cost: 200/225/250
Casting Type: Instant
Casting Range: 750 or 800
Cooldown: 24-30sec
Damage: .25/.33/.50 of crushing wave, per wave
Skill Point Cost: 8/7/6
Total Skill Point Cost: 21

Big aoe mass destruction spell, outer units get hit by about 2 waves, middle units about 10 waves, for 5*pwr dmg.

I actually like Geyser, and would prefer if it simply got the appropriate buffs. If Ripple were cast at a point, that could be a fine remake for Geyser.

It could be, but non channeling. I found it a rather weak channel anyway, with this it would be more like a point that releases damage, whether that point be the caster or some other range.

omg kuro +10 rep for the sick ideas and force of the ocean sounds like that predator whirlwind move. I really like the flood idea, seems like a buffed geyser, and I also agree with phase shift not making sense. That last spell could make a really good m-spell for water/holy.

That is an aoe damage spell. Water/Holy is the pure support book. For the last time diaster, stop trying to make support into something it's not.

Liquid Sunshine: channeling. replenishes mana to all allies in a 625 AoE. mana replenished per second= .5*(power+essence). lasts 12 seconds. at the end of the duration, nearby allies (and you) get the 'water sphere' buff. additional 10 mana if used at daytime. one level. +1 mana for every level in bubble aura and water sphere.

when the hell does that do damage?

Ooooooooh. He got you.

diaster wrote:

That last spell could make a really good m-spell for water/holy.

The last spell shown was Force of the Ocean which was an aoe damage spell.

thanks for liking my ideas everyone ^_^

lol, misunderstanding attack. diaster was referring to my liquid sunshine idea. liquid sunshine means when it rains while the sun is bright and shining, which makes you feel better and gives back mana.

i based my ideas around what you said, dragon, that water should be massive aoe DoT's and supports, with mana support too.

to clarify, ripple sends out a ripple-wave every 1-2 seconds, because its not supposed to mass silence like wind just silences here and there with AoE damage.

If silence is replaced with a *offensive* spell, I am going to bitch for a long time.

Silence being replaced with a damaging spell is one of the most retarded things I have ever heard about MM&M.

EDIT: Few of you would remember my page long self defence and explanations. But for the few that do, be prepared.

Liquid sunshine could become a good M-spell (Holy/Water), but if it became a M-Spell, it should hava a minor heal effect also, like 1*power.

Hey DarkDjinni, why would it bother you for Water to get an Offensive spell replacing their current disable? It would make them slightly less of a support element, but massive changes are being made, and I think other things will be come more support based in it as we go. You made a statement but didn't explain it, that isn't like you.

Dragonheart91 wrote:

Hey DarkDjinni, why would it bother you for Water to get an Offensive spell replacing their current disable? It would make them slightly less of a support element, but massive changes are being made, and I think other things will be come more support based in it as we go. You made a statement but didn't explain it, that isn't like you.

Quote :

EDIT: Few of you would remember my page long self defence and explanations. But for the few that do, be prepared.

Explainatons will come if it happens, but at the moment whats the point of possibly insulting people.
This is a subject I feel quite strongly on.

Can you just start with a simple explanation? Like I said, massive changes are about to be done, the balance of Water might be temporarily skewed while those take place. After the final set of 11 spells for Water is at least vaguely being agreed upon, then you can talk about whether it should have more support or more offense.


Edit: This just reminded me that I would like to see Water redone before the code reset. No point making a new Water mage until you know what is going to be happening to it in the next version.

Dragonheart91 wrote:

Can you just start with a simple explanation? Like I said, massive changes are about to be done, the balance of Water might be temporarily skewed while those take place. After the final set of 11 spells for Water is at least vaguely being agreed upon, then you can talk about whether it should have more support or more offense.


Edit: This just reminded me that I would like to see Water redone before the code reset. No point making a new Water mage until you know what is going to be happening to it in the next version.

I have alot of ideas about Water, and I believe the game currently has particular set ups about it.

Carry - Fire/Ice/Lightning/*Dark*(If played perfectly Dark is included)
Skewed Support - (Basically every Element fits in here)
Support - Holy

Now there are certain elements that fit multiple roles well, but non exceptionally. (NOTE: Wind/Dark/Water, this is good for Wind and Dark, because Wind and Dark can do enough damage to be seen as a *pseudo-carry*)

HOWEVER, Water does not do enough damage to be thrown under the *pseudo-carry* veil.
So in my opinion 1 of 2 things MUST happen to Water, it can either be pushed into an offensive direction or a support.

Offensive - Basically Wind but different.
Support - What the game needs, you need the 2 different types of support. I love playing support, but I am forced to go Holy because the variability for Water just is not there.

EDIT - I am sure other people love support also, and feel the same way as me. I am just an example, I am in no way biast. I don't want Water made such a strong support that it cannot be beaten, but I do want it to be strong enough that it is actually a STRONG hinderence. (Like Holy).

Yeah, the direction I see for Water is support of a different type. It would support mana, use defensive abilities, and have a third level of support that could also be partially carry. This third part is the aoe damage over time abilities. They would take care of the creeps, therefore allowing your carries to focus on enemy mages more easily. These abilities could also have disabling properties to enemy mages.

Killing creeps IS support (in a way) as long as you have enough mana to do it easily and save your ally from having to.

Light is mainly healing support with minor mana support, buffs, debuffs, defense, and single target damage thrown in. I forsee Water being mainly mana support with defense for itself and allies, debuffs for enemies, and aoe damage thrown in. The difference here, is that Water defends and gives mana instead of healing, and does aoe damage instead of single target. I see the aoe damage over time as more of a secondary part of Water. It is mostly there because focusing an element 100% on mana regeneration doesn't leave them any way to use their now massive mana.

If anyone disagrees with my view of Water, that is fine. Express your opinion and lets discuss it.


P.S. I am starting to think that Vapor Shield should be removed as an M-spell and given to Water as an ultimate. Reduce it to 10%, and cast on allies only, or enemies to drain mana up to 10% of their hp. (Dispelable)

If any of you have actually looked - Silence, in my version of new water, was replaced by a ward. Mana Flare or something I think. It's a Pseudo silence in that you get damaged for casting, but you can stop it by killing it... If you choose to cast it becomes offence - and only a Pseudo one at that.

Ripple was a Geyser remake. Less damage, but non channeling. And a semi interrupt.

I agree with what you said about AoE damage for creeps, however that can be achieved by MINOR buffs to their existing spells (NOTE:AoE), a support spell should not be replaced with a damage spell just because people don't think the existing spells are strong enough.

EDIT @ Jay.J - I didn't say every idea was terrible I said I am STRONGLY against the sole damage replacments.

There are no offensive replacements...

The changes I made were

-0.25x dmg added to bubble
-Water elementals do lesser crushing waves upon death for a higher cost on the elementals (Possibly OP)
-Dispel renamed to debuff, and has AoE altered to use power for it's AoE with a static number, and slows if there are no buffs on the unit
-Bubble aura is % based with a static number instead of purely static
-Crushing wave remains unchanged
-Ripple replaces Geyser, actually has LESS damage. It's not channeling however, and has 0.5sec silences every 1 second for 3 seconds
-Mana sheild adds a slight amount of overall mana when it's active
-Mana Flare replaces silence, which is just damage if it's worth it or the enemy is stupid, screws up
-no C spell suggested, possibly the mist spell could go here
-replenish adds % mana as well as normal mana based on your CURRENT mana.

I am not saying your ideas are bad, my comments about offensive were directed at OTHER people.

However, instead of total mana, id like self mana regen, not large regen just small but still a buff. (For your Mana shield buff)

This lets you choose to deal damage or be more of a support.
The damage dealt wouldn't increase that much.

It is a MINOR buff (self regen), and lets you support better and also lets you *pseudo-carry*.


NOTE: *pseudo-carry* is no where close to a proper carry, it requires extreme skil lto simulate what a half decent player can do.
NOTE: I guess I could look at your changes alot closer and send you a PM about them, or just psot my thoughts here.

Quote :

However, instead of total mana, id like self mana regen, not large regen just small but still a buff. (For your Mana shield buff)

That's not a bad idea, gets the general same concept there. I think that's better actually.

I don't think Dark fits a role...It's very dependant on how you build it, and can fit any role you make it fit.

But Dark can still fill a role, Water alone has alot of trouble filling a role, not enough burst mana regen at a time for good support, and not alot of dmg to single or multiple targets, it only has 1 Tanking spell, and only 1 disable. It's summon is terrible, and it has a morph.

Alright, time to critique Jay's proposed Water remake.

You forgot to title Bubble. Other than that, perfect.

Water Elemental remake is just how I would want it. Maybe a little more mana cost, since it now shoots quite powerful Crushing Waves. Either that, or keep it at 1/4 power waves.

Debuff? That is a crappy name, no offense. I think Dispel is a great name. Your suggestion is fine, except that the way it is described sounds weird. I suggest: "Note: If a unit effected by this spell is not Dispelled, then it becomes slowed by 20% for 3 seconds. Also, the aoe boost from Power is HUGE! 200+10*60 = 800 aoe. That is insane, and some Water mages go as high as 80 Power. I suggest power *5.

Your Bubble Aura remake is rigged. I suggest .25% all levels, and 1/2/3/4 static.

I know you didn't change Crushing Wave, but it is still outclassed by Carrion Swarm. I suggest 4*power, that also makes all of the math for it infinitely easier.

I suggest that you can put Ripple at a point just like Geyser. (600 casting range) You also failed to mention how many waves shoot, but I suggest 3 waves with 350 aoe. It would essentially be a non-channeled Geyser that briefly silences. Good buff and remake IMO. (The mana cost is huge, and it is a tier 2 spell.)

Mana Shield change is good except that you made it rigged again. I suggest a static bonus to regeneration, or at very least a much smaller %. Balanced static bonus could be like 2/3/4/5, and % could be like .1/.2/.3./.4. Remember that this is a tier 1 spell.

I strongly dislike the concept of Mana Flare. I have always disliked this concept in any game, but ESPECIALLY in MM&M. Not only does it not fit the theme of Water in my opinion, but it is also an annoying ability that screams GAY. (At least to me.) I suggest this instead:
Aqua Sphere
-Effect: Projects a Mana Shield onto the target. Damage dealt to allies protected by this spell is dealt to your mana. Damage dealt to enemies under the effect of this spell is dealt to THEIR mana. Also drains .05/.1/.15*Power mana per second if cast on an enemy.
-Mana Cost: 80
-Casting Type: Instant Buff/Debuff
-Casting Range: 750
-Cooldown: 25 seconds
-Duration: 10 seconds
-Skill Point Cost: 8/7/6
-Total Cost: 21

For the "C" spell, I have an idea.
Torrent
-Effect: Fires 2/3/4 1/4 power Crushing Waves at the target per second. Drains 100 mana per second while active.
-Mana Cost: 200
-Casting Type: Channel Area Effect
-Casting Range: 700
-Cooldown: 40 seconds
-Duration: Until you run out of mana or stop channeling.
-Skill Point Cost: 10/8/6
-Total:24
Basically, these waves would spawn at a random point behind you similar to Stampede, and launch roughly towards the target point. The casting range is 150 less than Crushing Wave range to accommodate the random location, and make sure they still hit their target.

Rename Phase Shift to whatever better name was suggested a minute ago. I like that, and it fits for you to turn into water vapor to avoid an attack. Makes alot more sense for the element than shifting out of phase.

Good change to Replenish. I like it alot. Also, as much as you seemed to dislike making things scale off of Essence, you did a great job in the spell reworks of making your total mana really matter to Water just as I wanted.


So, these are my ideas and modifications. Please take them into account and discuss them.

Edit: I also just realized that this build does not include any healing, or an aoe mana drainer. That is ok in my opinion, but if you don't agree, feel free to suggest changes.

When I suggested the Mana Shield idea I meant WITHOUT a passive mana drain on it, thats what kept it from being OP.

The target can choose to not lose any mana at all, or can risk it.