new ideas on potions

well potions are only used with maxed out mages, if used at all. gold is too precious early game to spend on something that will save you 30seconds of respawning or 30seconds waiting around the mana fountain.

so i was thinking, what if we make some potion with charges? it heals 200hp, and has five charges for 5gold.

i was also thinking, what if we could make it so that the potion has a 5minute-ish cooldown, heals for 150hp or so, and can be re-used?

or even 'elixers' which boost you for a period of time which cannot be dispelled (may even give you a passive skill or something) e.g. armor, damage, speed, power, stamina, essence. (+5armor +10% spell reduc, +10 damage, +5%ms and 5%as, +3 power, +3 stamina, +5 ess) they would probably last for 5minutes, and the ability is taken away after the 5 minutes.

so the ideas are 'multiple charges, unlimited stock, and long-lasting effect' potions. thoughts?

these ideas are all about making potions better and more worthwhile than they currently are now.

potions innately suck because they cost gold, i agree. In your everyday game you probably wont use any potions, however in games that are important to people (like 1v1 or matches in a tournament)potions will be used often because gold is not usually a factor in those games.

Basically the two new potions I added where not meant as early game additions, the potions already in the game where designed to be cheap and somewhat useful early to mid game, but there was nothing for the late game, which is Why I added those two.

i like the idea of infinite potion, makes them worth while and np all the better

Well I can certainly agree with the coolness increases from multiple charges.

Also the Elixirs Sound interesting, mainly because of the long lasting effect your asking for=p

Ill look into it.

i added this because potions are

1- expensive
2- have a one time use that doesnt pay you back for your 5g.

in certain games, you buy a weapon and make cash with it until it expires. you then usually have more cash by the time it expires (or should). but if it doesnt help you at all then its worthless!

my potion ideas are

1- not too costly for its usage
2- long term effect that can affect the outcome of the game, your deaths, your kills, etc.

if you could implement this, or something to this extent, it would be soo cool

Potions that have an indefinite amout of usage, but a cooldown sound good. Non-savable but you would probably buy them every game sound alright. Though, it would definately change the gameplay a hell of a lot, and would need a price boost.

one potion will probably be 'lesser health potion', regain 150hp, 5minute cooldown, with a cost of about 8gold.

thats fairly decent, could save you a death here or there.

and by the way, elixirs cannot stack. so you can only have one on at a time.

That sounds weak to me. But the concept is still there.

thats the level1 potion. thats why its called 'lesser', lol.

stronger one would be something like restore 200hp, regenerate 250 over 5 seconds.

while we're here, anyone want to post ideas for potions or elixirs? (that i haven't stated, or anything new would be welcome)

Potion of Speed:

Movement speed increases by 40 for 7 seconds.

Cost: 6


Powerlust Potion:

Mana cost of 100. Duration of 20 seconds. The next spell you cast will deal an additional 50% damage. (Does not work on multi-hit spells.)

Cost: 11


Spell Capture Potion:

Duration 5 seconds. If you are hit with a projectile spell during this time, this potion transforms into a duplicate of that spell. (Including mana cost. Also, spells like Icy Orb would give you Frost Bolt if a bolt hit you, or Icy Orb if the actual orb hit first. This does not negate the damage or any of the effects from the spell. This casts the spell as though the original caster had used it.)

Cost: 11


I figured as long as we were providing potions to nerf mana regen and hp regen elements, we might as well do the same for movement speed. The other two are just original ideas I thought of, and are probably imba in their current form. But, they seemed interesting to me.

potions that recover mana or hp will tend to be infinite but with a cd. but things like 'speed potion' etc will not, as 'special effect' potions spam (like potion of speed and powerlust potion) will become cheat, therefore they will have 1 charge.

also, recover hp/mana potions share the same cd. so if you're going to get one of the potions, you must chose

so things that dont stack with eachother:
-recovery potions
-special ability/effect potions
-elixers

All of those suggestions make sense. I was sort of thinking along the same lines and I support those. Also, could you comment on my potion ideas?

theyre all cool, but powerlust is a bit imba.

also if spellsteal potion thing copies invisiblity thatd be cheat.

maybe a 20-30% more would be good.

movespeed potion is cool

The spellsteal only copies projectiles that hit you. So, it only works against a limited set of things in each element.

Dark: Carrion Swarm, Death Coil.
Fire: Firebolt, Fire Orb, Fireball.
Water: Crushing Wave, Bubble.
Earth: Hurl Boulder, Granite Grenade.
Light: None.
Ice: Frost Bolt, Icy Orb, Freezing Orb.
Lightning: Lightning Strike, Thunderbolt, Thunderstorm. (But you would steal Lightning Strike from this.)
Wind: Wind Walk, Whirl Wind.


That is the list of spells it could steal.

Actually, I don't want potions now that I've thought about it for a while. They'll almost always be too weak, or they'll be strong and become a focus around the game. They either become a centralized theme, like they used to be such as invunerability/invis potions, or completely unused like they are now. You can't really balance them...

I know a lot of people won't like the comparison, but DotA doesn't have potions for a reason. And I think a good reason at that. Atleast not ones that aren't overtime. Although we do, the cost for it is just not good enough.

Well, that is what -NP mode is for. Also, I think my spellsteal potion is as close to balanced as they will become. (Not necessarily it's current stats, but the concept should be balanceable.)


But yeah, in higher level games I expect potion to be a significant part of gameplay. That is why they should have more interesting and less cheap effects. Your opponent suddenly healing full hp feels really cheap, but your opponent using one of your own spells back on you would be awesome. (It still takes him the same mana cost that it would have taken you, so it isn't cheap just more variety.)

I think our objective here is to find ways to make potions more fun and less cheap.

I think the concept remains. Either the game revolves around potions, or they are too useless to be used. Anything that revolves around a certain thing is considered imbalanced.

It's balanced in the sense that "Everyone can do it". But because everyone DOES do it, it means that certain thing must be stronger than it's options. The only other option you have is to not buy potions, so just the concept of them is too strong. Think about it, mana/hp potions nerf Water/Light. You're spell potion is interesting...however I don't think being able to steal a spell is worthy of implementing more potions.

I do think that it would be a neat spell idea. Absorb the next incoming spell, and be able to send it back to the user for the same mana cost. Would be a cool M-spell.

It doesn't cancel it, it just essentially lets you learn it for one cast.

Well, I think it would be better as a spell idea - and as a spell it would need something better.

all potions/elixers should have minor effects so that they can help and affect the game but not by too much.

so far these are ideas:

health potions
mana potions

elixer of agility (raises movespeed by 5% for 5minutes)
elixer of empowerment (raises damage by 20 for 5minutes)
elixer of the undying (150 seconds after activation, if you die within 150sec,respawn time is cut by a random percentage)
elixer of spellshield (reduces incoming spell damage by 15% for the next 5 minutes)
elixer of spellsword (increases outgoing spell damage by 15% for the next 5 minutes)
elixer of light (boosts outgoing heals by 15% for the next 5 minutes)

I would limit it to one elixer active at once, one permanent potion carried at once, and all misc potions share a long cooldown. That way, it adds another layer of strategy instead of being unbalanced.

I would also encourage us to stay away from boring potions like instant heal, invulnerability, and other over-powered things. I think every misc potion should fill a specific niche and be extremely specific to that. For instance, my suggested spell stealing potion is good vs anyone using an orb spell, but doesn't really do much vs anything else. It has a few uses against most elements but it isn't nearly as useful unless they use alot of projectiles. (So, it would be good against Fire, Ice, Lightning, and to a much lesser extent Wind. The other elements just don't use many projectiles worth stealing.)