Intelligence

This forum is dying...people seem to like to discuss random things. Let's talk about intelligence.

What is it? What is knowledge? What makes something knowledgeable or intelligent? Are computers or robots intelligent? What makes their Intelligence artificial in comparison to ours?

Discuss.

Knowledge is information you have. Intelligence is your potential to learn. Comps/robots can be intelligent, but they are generally not considered so, because humans tend to learn faster. They tend to be able to hold less knowledge in comparison also, considering every sight sound smell etc. that you have experienced is somewhere in your mind.

"Intelligence (also called intellect) is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to define intelligence. In some cases, intelligence may include traits such as creativity, personality, character, knowledge, or wisdom. However, most psychologists prefer not to include these traits in the definition of intelligence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence

i myself believe that intelligence is the ability to comprehend, digest, and respond to information. there are so many ways that intelligence can be defined... how good you are in math does not dictate your intelligence. your math IQ averaged with many other types of intelligence results in your true IQ. as said before there are so many ways...

robots have intelligence because people programmed them to. AI robots have many 'if' questions programmed. if sensor on a car-bot detects something near, it may have itself turn around. robots also generally have more intelligence because they can store a bunch of information and pull it out of their microchips in a flash. but they have a hard time learning. like if you told the robot, "annie, bobby, and carry joined one of theser clubs each: music club, choir club, and band club. annie joined choir and bobby joined music club. what club did carry join?" with this kind of question the average child would be able to figure it out easily. but only certain robots would be able to do this feat, if it was programmed with the process of elimination. robots are different from humans because they need to be PROGRAMMED with logic, reasoning, and the ability to learn whereas humans have this by default.

there was a recent study of the intelligence of dogs. for a comparison, chimpanzees were given a few tests. a treat was place under three cups. the cups were then scrambled, and the chimps guessed the cup with the treat correctly (most of the time, i believe). after that the treat was placed under a random cup, and the *scientist/experimentor* pointed to the correct one. the chimp would choose a random cup in hopes of finding the treat; but they could not process the gesture.

after that dogs were tested. a human would point to a cup and the dogs would get it correct. even young puppies were tested and most of them also got it correct. over time, dogs have gained an adaptation where they are able to process human gestures, like points, whistles, name-calls and eye movements.

so which is smarter, dogs or chimps? they are both in fact intelligent, but because dogs are able to comprehend and interact with others (humans) they can in some areas be considered smarter.

i'll check back soon.

After you are done defining knowledge and intelligence, then try to define wisdom.

Wisdom is usually attached to experience. I guess intelligence breaks down into a few "subgroups" so to speak. There is raw knowledge, or data. Then there is the ability to put all the things you know together to form ideas and concepts. I suppose an analogy could be someone who knows several root words in Latin. If presented with a word that this person had not heard before, he or she would most likely try to figure out the word based on the Latin roots: I.e. Philosophy when broken down to its roots is Philo (love of something) and Sophy (wisdom). Thus, you have philosophy as a whole meaning Love of wisdom. Now, this breaks down a little when the roots aren't Latin based, but that's not the point.

The point was that intelligence is taking examples in your life and applying what you've learned previously into the future.

Alright Let's play devil's advocate .

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robots have intelligence because people programmed them to.

And we are "Programmed" by our genes and our environment. We do not choose our parents or which genes we get. Nor do we get to choose our childhood which make us into who we grow up to be. Are we then not programmed to do whatever we do - but in a much more sophisticated way?

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robots also generally have more intelligence because they can store a bunch of information and pull it out of their microchips in a flash.

Being able to do more and faster means it's more intelligent? What if it does the wrong thing, while on the other hand the human just guesses a course of action or an answer in the same time and HAPPENS to do do the right one? One made an informed decision, but got it wrong - while the other one fluked out and got it right. This kind of comes down to the question "Is the being better who does wrong for the right reasons, or does right for the wrong reasons?"

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but only certain robots would be able to do this feat, if it was programmed with the process of elimination. robots are different from humans because they need to be PROGRAMMED with logic, reasoning, and the ability to learn whereas humans have this by default.

On the other hand give a robot a bunch of numbers and have them interact and the robot/computer will give you the right information or answer. On the other hand give that to a child and they don't know what to do with it, let alone comprehend it or be able to do it quicker. How is it that we are not just "Programmed" to do different things than robots?

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so which is smarter, dogs or chimps? they are both in fact intelligent, but because dogs are able to comprehend and interact with others (humans) they can in some areas be considered smarter.

Again this comes down to what they have been "Programmed" to do. If you compare a Math major and an English major - then give them a math problem and ask who's smarter...that's unfair. Same goes if you ask them to analyze a report and write up a proposition or analysis. "Intelligence" is the overall ability to comprehend information. The faster they can do it...the more intelligent they are.
The problem with defining Intelligence, and saying who is more intelligent - is how you break down it's components. Different parts have different values and these are subjective (Opinionated). For example how important is logic compared to analytic skills? How important is spacial sense in comparison to data interpretation? They all have different values and each one might suit certain situations better than others but overall who is more intelligent? Also this brings up the point that someone who is less intelligent might excel in certain areas or situations than someone who is more intelligent because they are less polar in what they are good at.

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Comps/robots can be intelligent, but they are generally not considered so, because humans tend to learn faster.

Does an 80 year old man learn faster than the worlds best super computer? How about computer chess programs versus professional ones?

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They tend to be able to hold less knowledge in comparison also, considering every sight sound smell etc. that you have experienced is somewhere in your mind.

What about data bases like Google. It contains like EVERYTHING. Or Wiki? Are they considered intelligent because they hold this information?

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The point was that intelligence is taking examples in your life and applying what you've learned previously into the future.

So wisdom is prejudice? You access the situation based on past experience rather than being open to new possibilities. Every black person I have met has stole my bike. Every white person I've met has been greedy and rich. Every brown person I have met has stole a job I wanted. Every oriental person I have met has been very stingy and good at math. Assume this is true, as I haven't met many people.
Is it wisdom to assume that based on my experience all people will be like this?

Robots are like babies.. when they are first made they are simple hardware nothing much complicated other than spare parts.. when babies are born its the same story.. they cant walk, talk, and reason like an adult can.. but like a baby, as robots can develope, upgraded to newer hardware, given memory to save and load things onto their database, as babies grow they memorize things, begin to slowly develope, gaining reasoning skills, being able to crawl, speaking small, unsensible phrases. a robot is soon given a firewall to protect it from viruses, as babies are given vacines to protect them from disease. when a baby is fully grown it can talk, walk, run, dance, reason, think, memorize.. everything, after a robot is finished and upgraded to its fullest with the best of the best put into it, it can adapt, memorize, granted it cant dance or talk or walk, but it allows us as humans to use our mind far beyond we could without them.

Intelligence is many things.. but the basic summary between robot intelligence and human intelligence is this..

Humans are the greater, sure a computer can calculate faster than we can.. but only because our mind alloud it too,

robots will never surpass humans in intelligence because the simple fact is there is always something new a computer can learn.. computesr may be smarter than an individual only because millions of minds have been put into it.

same goes with humans and god

humans will NEVER be more intelligent than god.. god knows all.. the only reason we know ANYTHING is because he alloud us to, he gave us the ability to reason, think, adapt, and memorize..

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Robots are like babies.. when they are first made they are simple hardware nothing much complicated other than spare parts.. when babies are born its the same story.. they cant walk, talk, and reason like an adult can.. but like a baby, as robots can develope, upgraded to newer hardware, given memory to save and load things onto their database, as babies grow they memorize things, begin to slowly develope, gaining reasoning skills, being able to crawl, speaking small, unsensible phrases. a robot is soon given a firewall to protect it from viruses, as babies are given vacines to protect them from disease. when a baby is fully grown it can talk, walk, run, dance, reason, think, memorize.. everything, after a robot is finished and upgraded to its fullest with the best of the best put into it, it can adapt, memorize, granted it cant dance or talk or walk, but it allows us as humans to use our mind far beyond we could without them.

So what's the difference between humans and robots? There are definite similarities. The only real difference is they are made out of abiotic materials and are less complex than us. What makes them less "Human" than? And why can't it dance or walk or talk. There's nothing limiting them except what we apply to them, and what we give them.

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Humans are the greater, sure a computer can calculate faster than we can.. but only because our mind alloud it too,

It's allowed for future reference. So why can't our mind create something better than our minds? We have physical limitations and mental limitations. Robots don't have to have either, or at the very least are only limited by what we give them - however those limitations can be greater than our own limitations.

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robots will never surpass humans in intelligence because the simple fact is there is always something new a computer can learn.. computesr may be smarter than an individual only because millions of minds have been put into it.

On a scale of one to sense that makes 0. Just because they can always learn something new doesn't mean they can't know or do more than we can...We're limited too. Does it matter how it got to that point? As long as it surpassed us? You can't say it's not smarter because it had more work put into it. That's like saying I don't know more stuff than you because I studied more than you. Doesn't mean you're more "Intelligent" because you might just be lazy and actually learn faster and better than me. But if I also learn faster and better...how can you say I'm not smarter? (I'm the robot in this comparison).

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robots will never surpass humans in intelligence because the simple fact is there is always something new a computer can learn.. computesr may be smarter than an individual only because millions of minds have been put into it.

There's a huge difference in comparing humans to God and Robots to humans. For one thing God by definition is not "created". He's infinity in all good aspects...We can't surpass infinity...But that's not to say something can't surpass us. For example let's say we're "1000". A simple robot might be 100, but once the robot is built up and perfected, why can't it be "1001"?

Dude, robots are obviously going to be OVER 9000! in a few years.

Robots will probably be greater then humans when they can adapt. They can't be greater then humans unless they can evolve on their own, right now humans just make then for a certain purpose. Once robots manage to replicate, learn and evolve on their own then they will be a lot smarter and advanced then humans.


(And sheezh whats with this forum and god. )


-Belial

Lol @ Dragon.

@ Belial: God comes up everywhere, in any discussion. Anything of controversy boils down to your belief system...and God is the root of most peoples beliefs.

Jay.J wrote:

Alright Let's play devil's advocate .

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robots have intelligence because people programmed them to.

And we are "Programmed" by our genes and our environment. We do not choose our parents or which genes we get. Nor do we get to choose our childhood which make us into who we grow up to be. Are we then not programmed to do whatever we do - but in a much more sophisticated way?

well using this quote as reference, our genes programmed us after a lot of evolution. robots dont evolve, unless you make a learning robot, they are programmed to do certain tasks.

intelligence is the ability to gather information and process it, and do something with it. that is why google isnt intelligent, it has data but it cant do many tasks with it other than giving you the raw information.

a part of intelligence is the ability to process data and come out with a result quickly. which is why, at times, calculators can be 'smarter' than a human in speed-calculating things.

sure google or calculators can be faster than humans but they need human input. so they aren't robots.

definition of a robot: a machine that can perform certain task(s) without any outside input (other than the push of the ON button).

heres a question thats been haunting my thoughts for the last week... making me tired and unhappy lets see if you can wrap your brains around it
Whats the point of anything? the earth life death pain happiness sorrow rage etc. etc.

in the grand scheme life has no clearly defined higher purpose, so I decided to look into a lower level that few ever consider, our cells. Why are we what we are? The answer to sustain life, we evolve so as to extend our lives, we reproduce as a means to survive as a species and you come to realize, just about everything boils down to our cells are basically trying to become immortal. Since we know this is near impossible life can almost be said to be meaningless, but I digress it is really only what you make of it, and to answer that infernal question, everything we do is to prolong the inevitable in one form or another.

Sex, if you want to get down to the scientific reason for existance, its sex, and procreation. Of course there's always love, a much more fufilling reason to life, possibly because then you not only live for you, you live for someone else. Perhaps, bringing up religion, its what comes after, whether its heaven, or reincarnation, depending on what you belive.

Spoiler:

sex is a means of attempting to survive by creating stronger offspring, thus trying to become immortal.

Lagger09 wrote:

Sex, if you want to get down to the scientific reason for existance, its sex, and procreation. Of course there's always love, a much more fufilling reason to life, possibly because then you not only live for you, you live for someone else. Perhaps, bringing up religion, its what comes after, whether its heaven, or reincarnation, depending on what you belive.

Spoiler:

Actually love is just a chemical reaction in your brain that makes you want to procreate.

In my opinion the reason of our existance is to exist. It might be a bit depressing but it prefer the truth no matter how depressing it is.




-Belial

Pfft most of my argument was ignored . The point of life is to figure out the meaning of life, and fulfill it. Some things are mearly a tool to help the meaning of life happen.

For EXAMPLE: IF the meaning of life was to worship God than Earth is just a tool to help us live. As is sex etc. However everything is meant to revolve around worshiping God in one form or another:

Example 2: IF the meaning of life is to just reproduce, then again the purpose of everything is to facilitate reproducing. Technology, emotions etc. They all help us want to live and make future generations.

Example 3: IF there is no meaning to life, then you will always be in search of it. The fact that it's a universal negative means you must PROVE that EVERYTHING else is not the meaning of life. This is not possible, and means you will always be in search of it. By always being in search of it - you're semi-fulfilling it by proving there isn't one (Which you can't do).

So, being alive is just a utility for discovering/fulfilling purpose?

I would think so. Once you've fulfilled your purpose (If you can fulfill it) then you have no more purpose in life, and therefore life is no longer needed, no?

Jay.J wrote:

I would think so. Once you've fulfilled your purpose (If you can fulfill it) then you have no more purpose in life, and therefore life is no longer needed, no?

Heh, i had a funny mental picture in my head when i read that: A scientist fount the meaning of life and everyone in the world dropped dead.




-Belial

Lol...well just because you know the meaning of life doesn't meant you've fulfilled it. And with the worshiping God, you wouldn't need to die since your purpose is t worship and believe as long as you live. I the purpose is just looking and finding the purpose, you won't ever find it which means you have to just keep looking. And you won't need to die if your purpose is to just live or procreate.

Hmmm... So if the meaning of live would be to look for the meaning of live or procreate then it would be pretty much the same as just exist and that means nothing so if that it true then there is no meaning of life.


Now if your purpose would be to worship god then god would have to exist and then afterlife would have to exist too. So after you have fulfilled your purpose and worshiped god for all your life then what is the point of an afterlife.

Worshiping means you have to believe in him/her/it (You can never be too sure) so if you get an afterlife (And most likely go to heaven, since everyone who asks for forgiveness shall get it.) you already know god exists and worshiping him would be pointless. And playing golf with god will probably get boring in a few hundred years so the afterlife would be just pure agony of boredom.

Thinking about all of that made my brain hurt almost as much as thinking of the paradoxes time travels creates.

(I usually offend someone when it comes to religion so just tell me when i go too far.)




-Belial

the meaning of life is to achieve immortality, not to procreate, though worship god is possible, but then I'd imagine god would be better defined.

No because the meaning of life is to FIND the meaning of life, and then FULFILL it. That means that you have to disprove every other meaning of life to say that the meaning of life is indeed ONLY to procreate and to find the meaning of life. However, you would have to search for an infinite amount of time to disprove EVERYTHING. You can't logically deduce what the meaning of life is, except by showing everything else isn't it. That means you would always spend your life looking for it, and thereby fulfilling it. Sort of paradoxal.

On the note of God, (Assuming God exists from here on in) God is the one who created the universe. He is the one who created boredom. Boredom is just a lack of something to do. A lack of willingness to do something. A lack of happiness, motivation and anything to do. Chemically it's the lack of endorphines I THINK. If it's God who is the one who created that feeling, he can just as easily create a world or universe without those things. You would have an infinite amount of things to do. And an infinite amount of time to do it in. You wouldn't have a lack of anything that would cause boredom. It's a very difficult concept to grasp, however...think about it. If it's God who creates boredom....and evil and such - then he can create an existence without it.

The reason this world is created is so that people can get there and get it by deserving it. This world and universe would be finite - and the afterlife infinite, in time and in amount of things possible to do.

Infinity is a neat concept. Have you ever really though about it? There's an infinite amount of numbers between negative infinity and infinity. But there's also an infinite amount of numbers between negative one and one. Isn't that just awesome? I think it is. Anywho, just ranting now.