Outer-Space Life Forms

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Ad Hominem

Attacking the person rather than the argument. I think it's you who's being naive, instead of actually countering ANYTHING I've said, you've talked about other things and not actually debated properly.

Lol, it's just pointless, it's like trying to convince the Pope about the inexistence of God.

This is a debate thread...Jeeze, debate - not say "LAWLZ LET'Z GIIVE UP HE'S INGORANTZ"

jay.j, the point of my argument is that

1- there are aliens out there
2- some are dumber, some a smarter.

....I fully understand that. I even addressed that.

MY point is that you have no evidence to back up the second part of your second premise. the "Some are smarter" part. You have no REASON to believe it. Whether it's evidential, or prudential. It doesn't benefit your for believing in it. You also have no reason to believe it. So WHY do you believe it? If you don't have an answer, then it's IRRATIONAL.

i believe it because with so many solar systems in the 5billion galaxies, and counting, out there that there is too much space for it NOT to be.

you say they're dumber. then its irrational? o.O (if you dont have an answer)

also, define "answer" as i could also have said something like "BECAUSE IT IZ!" and that would be an answer. (i'll assume you refer to a RATIONAL answer, and that an irrational answer would mean that the idea is also irrational)

Ill step in (without reading it might i add)
Whats saying there isn't another planet = Earth? and there are more humans out there and if there are a question arises can WE humans breed with THOSE humans

I'm done. I'm just repeating myself and you're not grasping simple concepts. You're also repeating YOURSELF. I don't know why this is circular in the least bit. It shouldn't be.

As i said, give it up, Kuro, he will never assimilate the idea.


Edit: Why are we trying to convince him? We seem to have majority anyways.

Jay.J wrote:

This is a debate thread...Jeeze, debate - not say "LAWLZ LET'Z GIIVE UP HE'S INGORANTZ"

That's why. Read more please .

Also - the majority means ABSOLUTELY nothing. See Hitler's Germany, WW2. Or more recently, 2000/2004 elections USA. Thanks.

Lets try with a sample space. Lets use Earth.
Millions of different forms of life, correct?

Humans are the smartest, correct?

The only point Kuro could make that they would be more intelligent is that, through evolution we have evolved and become more intelligent.
Our solar system is quite new also, in comparison.

Therefore, it is possible that an older solar system has a life form that has evolved past us, to an intelligence we haven't reached. (Don't we only use 10% of our brains? Im not positive on the number, don't nitpick it)

Exactly, dark, kuro's point is good enough, but jay is just stubborn.

And wth you mean with Hitler, WW2, and USA elections? Seriously, formulate it better.

Jeeze, like I said - what Dark said I've already COVERED that in my posts. Learn to read better and you would have noticed that in my earlier posts since you've been here. Dark on the other hand, I assume hasn't read EVERYTHING.

Here is where I sort of covered it, and in other places, where I can't be bothered to look.

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The way I see it for there to be a more intelligent life form these things PROBABLY should happen, for it to be "likely"
1. The galaxy must be older (Finite amount of those galaxies)
2. The galaxy/planet must be able to have life forms
3. Just because they have had longer, doesn't mean they've evolved further (The life forms). For one, again evolution doesn't mean evolving to the best possible being or anything like that - it means adapting to fit your environment and surroundings. Why should they be smarter.

Getting at that last point, just because they've been around for longer - if there even is life forms that are older than our planets....doesn't mean they're smarter because that's not how evolution works.

Again.

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I'm done. I'm just repeating myself and you're not grasping simple concepts. You're also repeating YOURSELF. I don't know why this is circular in the least bit. It shouldn't be.

And you not understanding the majority meaning nothing...then me giving examples where the majority was clearly making a bad decision, which I then give examples shows me your intelligence, or lack thereof. You want me to simplify, sure - MAJORITY MEANS NOTHING. Examples of bad majorities were in Germany and USA during the said times - mainly The Nazi empire, and the Bush elections.

Now stop calling me stubborn, when I've been very few patient, and it's not my fault you're comprehension of my arguments aren't going through.

kuro wrote:

Jay.J wrote:

Your posts indicate that you believe their a lot smarter, or at least as smart as us. Why would you believe that? Statistically, no, they probably aren't smarter. Hell - just because I believe there is life out there, doesn't mean there is >.> LET ALONE more intelligent ones.

Your posts indicate that you believe that their a lot dumber, or at least as dumb as us. Why would you believe that? Statistically, yes, they probably are smarter. Hell - just because i believe there isn't life out there, doesn't mean there isn't >.> LET ALONE the dumb ones.



one can argue both ways. i said there are probably dumber AND smarter aliens out there. doesn't mean there is, but that's what i believe :O

This section is called "Debate" not "Beliefs". I'm also interested with the kind of people you spend your time with kuro, to think that humans are dumb...

Anyways, I'm with Jay J.

Also, I don't see why the number of galaxies has much if anything to do with the chances of "intelligent" life being in existence. You seem to have mistaken the difference between "number" and "statistics". We would first have to find extraterrestrial life to be able to define a statistical model! You can't gather statistics on one point!!! *sigh*

I've read almost your entire argument (sadly enough) and it's pure fallacious...

I just realized I had a typo, and I even bolded it. How embarrassing. That bolded "Their" should be "They're". Anywho, awesome finally got some support here .

Balnazzar wrote:

Exactly, dark, kuro's point is good enough, but jay is just stubborn.

And wth you mean with Hitler, WW2, and USA elections? Seriously, formulate it better.

You misunderstood. I said it is POSSIBLE.

I'm 100% with Jay.J here.

Also, like Jay.J said the planet has to sustain life. Didn't Earth totally fluke out, being an almost perfect distance from the Sun. Having ample nutrients for animals and plants to thrive in.

That sort of perfection doesn't come along in every planet.

True, dark, but there are several billion solar systems. Not to mention, they're pretty sure that there is a planet out there that can sustain life. Plus, they think that a moon around Jupiter can sustain life at the bacterial level. That moon is Europa. They think that there will be life on that moon because there is bacterial life on this planet that exists deep under the ocean near extremely hot volcanic vents. The bacteria feed on the nutrients that boil up. Now for a second more sci-fi based argument.

Life on this planet is very... narrow. Yeah, it's diverse from *our* point of view, but we know very little. Life on this planet is the way it is because, well, that's how it needs to be to survive. We're not really sure why life sprang up in the form it did. This being the case, it is conceivable that life could spring up under different conditions. If I'm not making sense, it is probably because I'm just about burned out with school and other crap going on... apologies if that's the case.

First, Jay, wth, Hitler's government wasn't bad AT ALL, as a politician he was magnificent, when he got the charge of chancellor there were 5.600.000 unemployed, in 3 years he got that number to 0, he was able to overcome the Huge economic crisis, and thanks to him Germany is today an important country, saying that he was a bad ruler just because of the jews issue is being ignorant.

Second, i call you stubborn because you been just repeating yourself, over and over again, not even denying Kuro's arguments properly.

Facepalm.

That's like me saying - if Hitler succeeded, the world would be a better place. Not because Jews were the problem, but because if you make someone believe something is the problem (The Jews in this case, as well as Homos, Blacks, Browns, Asians & anyone who wasn't Aryan) and then you get rid of that "problem", people become relieved, even though nothing was actually fixed or solved.

It's like a placebo effect of sorts. The world would be better. There wouldn't be animosity towards one another, because we'd all be Aryan Germans. But is that actually good? Fuck no. Sure, he's the reason they got out of a depression, and helped other countries (Like the USA) get out of depression, but their means of doing so are RIDICULOUS.

Deceiving yourself and your country for gain...and gain in the sense that "Ignorance is bliss" sort is just wrong. Why the hell am I explaining to you why Hitler was a bad person? It's like....WTF?!??!?! Either you missed the point again or you're just a troll.

Point: Having a majority means NOTHING. Right now I have a majority, so what does that mean? You instantly become wrong and now have to prove it to me since I got majority?

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Edit: Why are we trying to convince him? We seem to have majority anyways.

Your move.

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Second, i call you stubborn because you been just repeating yourself, over and over again, not even denying Kuro's arguments properly.

I am repeating myself, for clarity because you seem to be dense, and nothing gets through. Not even when other people explain it. If anything, you should consider me patient as hell since I don't have to do this. This is for YOUR benefit. To make you understand how to form a rational belief. The closest thing to any benefit I get, is if I succeed, that warm little feeling of "Yes I've somewhat made the world a better place by teaching someone something. The world is slightly less stupider." Or maybe "Yay, I win the debate.". However both those feelings are pitiful and fleeting gains. You sir, once you understand WHY you're wrong, and then later take that mistake and LEARN from it....That my friend, will make the world a better place .

@Aqua: I understand what you're saying. Life isn't the concern of this conversation anymore. It's intelligent life. Most of us have accepted that there probably is some sort of life in the billions of galaxies. However, that being said - there's not reason to believe that they would have evolved beyond us, and be just as intelligent as us if not more so. Whether it be under similar conditions as our own planet, or completely different ones with absolute-zero temperatures, or lava hot shit...Point is: Intelligent life doesn't seem likely regardless of other life forms.

@Dark: Ya it's POSSIBLE....but there's not reason to believe it. Evidential or prudential reasons. Let alone strong reasons to believe it.

Jay, now YOU are not getting what i'm saying, i never said Hitler was a "GOOD" person, (good or bad is always a point of view, and i'm conscious of it being pointles to argue) what i said is a fact, he was a good ruler who made Germany progress, regardless of his means, he helped his nation.

Second, why you so desperately need to believe there is no inteligent life out of earth?
We already know it's possible, we already know it is POSSIBLE, our diference is (us and them = people who believe there are other intellingent life form or not) that we think statistics show that there is other intelligent life forms and you don't.

And about the majority comment I did, it worked out well, just as i expected, a few more people jumped in to defend their point of view.

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The closest thing to any benefit I get, is if I succeed, that warm little feeling of "Yes I've somewhat made the world a better place by teaching someone something. The world is slightly less stupider." Or maybe "Yay, I win the debate.". However both those feelings are pitiful and fleeting gains. You sir, once you understand WHY you're wrong, and then later take that mistake and LEARN from it....That my friend, will make the world a better place .

ROFL! that was just ridiculous, so much that it's funny.


I am pretty sure it's completely pointless to keep arguing about this, since there is no way to change your point of view (I won't give reasons to this statement, and i'm not saying that ANY other person's point of view can't be changed, i'm just talking about HIM).

P.S.: Yes, i kinda mocked a little using caps that way.

I think DBC just mathematically (and possible physically[don't ask how]) Pwnt Jay
And i don't see how Jay doesn't think there aren't any other intelligent life out there either
with our possibly infinite universe there are any other planets that support life and a whole race of aliens probably at war just like us for power and money

DBC I LOVE YOU FOR CALLING JAY STUBBORN!!

Balnazzar wrote:

DBC I LOVE YOU FOR CALLING JAY STUBBORN!!

Well, I meant stubborn by he wont change his stance, no matter what anyone says. Making sure you guys weren't thinking differently

Realistically I don't understand that calculation. However, from what I do - it doesn't seem to calculate INTELLIGENT life. It calculates other life. To which I whole heartedy agreed. I also believe, that just because there are so many galxies, doesn't mean that any one of them have to form into one that can produce life, let alone intelligent ones. Especially since you can't actually calculate "Chances of there being other life forms" on a planet, since we don't even know what something can live on....Are we talking about statistics of there being another type of planet such as Earth? Because....even that's inaccurate as other life forms can possibly live in completely different atmospheres.

Perhaps someone with a bit more mathematical knowledge (Preferably that's on my side) such as Zync, would be so kind as to explain it to me .

Actually, looking at it again...Where the hell are you getting any of these numbers? Your calculations are bullshit. They range from 0-100 for many of the things, and that's shit you just can't know....These numbers are completely made up. Your calculations assume 20%? That's not low. That's fucking HIGH as hell for what they represent.

Tank & Bal, did you actually take a look at those numbers at all? Or just assume because someone put something up it's right?