Summons should recieve creep upgrades.

The title basically says it all. I think summoned units should get upgrades along with the creeps. Without that, they fall to the way-side very quickly. I do not suggest them upgrading as much as the creeps do, but a noticeable bonus would be nice. Especially on the damage.

Of course this is only one possible way to fix the problem, which is that summons don't scale. You could simply make all summons scale similar to how water morphed elementals do. (Except more drastically.) Example:

Water Elemental
hp=stamina
damage=power/2
mana=essence*5

You could do the same thing with all the elementals. And of course the numbers need to be worked on.

Lastly, you could even do BOTH things. Scaling elementals that also get creep upgrades are entirely possible.

looks cool, not sure on how easy the (hp=power*2) formula is to code though.

/me gives a thumbs up

Elementals need something to make them [more] useful, mayhaps this be the solution.

I also agree with summon upgrades. Dispelling spells are almost always 1 hit KOs for elementals and the damage of elementals is negligible at higher lvls.

Agreed to scaling with creeps - unsure on being based on stats. Most summoners don't get power at all. And it would be a very very difficult thing to balance based on stats.

If they did scale based on stats, I think I would actually prefer it semi-scaling. So that it would have like 70% base stats, and then get bonuses from your other stats. That would still leave summoners viable, but it would make summons actually useful for other people hopefully. (Those Power heavy mages would have summons that did big damage compared to their summoner friends. This would be especially useful with the bouncing attack of the Lightning Elemental, as it would give Lightning their first good spammable aoe.)

Umm you sort of missed my point. It's like...the traditional summer becomes pretty useless - while the 104 power mage with 10 stamina and the rest in essence becomes Godly in both summoning and in nuking.

Imagine it, spamming elementals wit TS on them, which do huge damage just by attacking anyway. And you could do it indefinately at the fountain.

Some things aren't meant to scale (with stats) so that you can have different builds, though I do think that scaling with creeps is a good idea.

Big, not huge. I think it would be ok as long as the effect is relatively minor. The summoner would have summons that have more hp/mana. (Speaking of which, all summons should have mana and a spell to cast, preferably autocast.) I would think about +20 damage for a maxed Lightning mage summoning. So instead of like 30 damage, it has like 50. Not that drastic.

Water and fire ele's def need to scale better, maybe lightning eles could scale w/ their attack and move speed?

Meh..depends on how it was done. Not for it...but I guess I'm not against it either.

Well maybe the eles can scale their stats based on urs? if you want eles with large attack, get power, lots of hp, get stam? idk...maybe it should jsut stay w/ power...or...maybe we could make it a channeling thing, the longer you channel the stronger the ele? eh just shooting out ideas.

I shoot down all of your ideas . Channeling elemental is just bad (Either to keep it up as a super elemental, or it gets stronger the longer you channel i)

Everything should scale off either a static number or power...which I've said many times. Giving stuff to Essence/Stamina isn't a good idea balance wise.

I think it just doesn't add enough to the game, but changes it too much. More is not always better...

maybe you can make the new items buff them enough to where they good late game?

as a water mage, i second the idea of buffing summons, whether with creep upgrades or without. not sure how that would be coded, though. my summoner water mage is growing useless very fast as eles eat up fireballs left and right.

Zync disapproves of this suggestion.

i thought the summons worked on a upgrade system if you look at the attack of them theres a 1 2 or 3 next to it which represents the levels idk if they do anything more then that

TanK_OwneR wrote:

i thought the summons worked on a upgrade system if you look at the attack of them theres a 1 2 or 3 next to it which represents the levels idk if they do anything more then that

They do. Instead of having (level of the spell here) different units to represent the same elemental, Zync was smart and used upgrades instead to alter their hp/damage/etc. instead of wasting map space on making more units.

hm see thats what i thought so that means that summons cant run on the creep upgrade system right?

No, they could. It'd just increase what the trigger upgrading creeps would have to do.

Still though, the point remains... Zync disapproves of this.

What was his reasoning? They don't have to upgrade with the creeps, but some sort of scaling would be nice.

Dragonheart91 wrote:

What was his reasoning?

Essence and Stamina should not affect spell power. That was his words.

Basically what I've been saying this whole time. I just think that they could be upgraded with creeps.

I disapprove of that personally, however.

Quote :

I disapprove of that personally, however.

Rationale? I haven't fully though it through. I just think most skills should scale (Though some are perfectly fine in every stage of the game).

So if the game goes on for hours, the ones with skills that scale WITH the time become greater than those who scale WITHOUT the time. My example would be at the start of a game, summons would be nearly useless... then 60 minutes in you wouldn't have to leave base to take out an enemy mage (using summons).